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The Road to Civil War 2021

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Phidippides
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Hmmm.....

 


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Donald Baker
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And so it begins....

 

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Phidippides
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So, honest question here - what exactly would a civil war in America look like?  I'd like to run through some scenarios, because it's confusing to me as to how this would happen, if it ever did get there.  The problems I see are a) the side would be divided along urban/rural lines in terms of popular support, and b) the federal government is so vastly stronger than local power that whichever side controls that at the time of escalation would basically control the outcome.  But let's say that there was a coup inside the federal government so that the military were split evenly.  What would happen then?


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Donald Baker
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I think the West Coast and the Northeast plus the upper Midwest would likely form geographical alliances against the rest of the nation.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Ken
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Good questions, Phid.  Would I have to move to a red state?  Western Rhode Island would be safe for now.


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Donald Baker
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Posted by: @skiguy

Good questions, Phid.  Would I have to move to a red state?  Western Rhode Island would be safe for now.

I think Maine would be safer for you.  But New England is no man's land if a Civil War erupts.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Ken
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Was thinking northern New Hampshire too. 

My main concern with civil war would be communications.  How would you meet up?  How would you know about like minded groups?  How would you get out information if what are you publishing is banned or considered illegal by the Feds?


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Donald Baker
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What if the dollar is abandoned for a digital currency?  How do you buy or sell?  Would you be constantly tracked?  Scary thoughts.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Phidippides
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I think the more immediately question would be about how territory is first divided up.  Set aside issues of fighting for the moment, and let's say an amicable split was made.  With that in mind, consider the following questions.  For our purposes, I'll call the territories "Wokestan" and "Trumplandia":

  1. Would Wokestan and Trumplandia really be divided neatly along state lines?  Because the ideological divide is really between rural and urban, which suggests that it would be more of a patchwork of alliances than a neat division.  Otherwise, you'd have red zones controlled by blue leaders, and vice versa. 
  2. With #1 in mind, a situation in which I could accept neat division along state lines is if states amicably broke up and they gave time for people to pack up and move out.  I actually envision a period of time during which there will be a mass migration of people as they move to areas of the country where they like the government.
  3. Will it only be Wokestan and Trumplandia, or would there be a third, or fourth nation born at the time of the breakup?  Or would places like Trumplandia take an early U.S. model of being a collection of individual, largely autonomous states?  My view is that many people would move to Trumplandia to escape leftist oppression, but they would not necessarily be traditional conservatives.  Some would be traditional liberals, some libertarians, and then some white supremacists, etc.  So you'd have different people with some things in common but who would never want to be governed in the same way.

Answer these questions.


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Donald Baker
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1.  Yes. I don't think states are going to balkanize.  State referendums would decide which nation they join.

2.  I suspect travel visas would be issued since people will likely have family members in both countries.

3.  I think two nations would emerge; not three or more.  Geographical continuity would be a problem for both so some kind of travel corridor would be created sorta like the Neutral Zone from Star Trek.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Phidippides
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Posted by: @donaldbaker

1.  Yes. I don't think states are going to balkanize.  State referendums would decide which nation they join.

2.  I suspect travel visas would be issued since people will likely have family members in both countries.

3.  I think two nations would emerge; not three or more.  Geographical continuity would be a problem for both so some kind of travel corridor would be created sorta like the Neutral Zone from Star Trek.

Interesting!  But if state referendums emerge to decide all-or-nothing for each state, wouldn't we see massive corruption because the stakes are so high?  And how would you handle purple states, such as Georgia or Minnesota, which could decide to join Wokestan even though the vast majority of left-leaning support would be heavily concentrated in small geographical zones?

I think we'd almost necessarily see balkanization, perhaps along county lines.  State boundaries are just too great to have everyone there live under the same ideological rule.  Otherwise, you'd have armed rebellions breaking out in parts of states all over, and then it could turn into an all-out revolution.2020 Election Results Map by County


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Phidippides
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I think my last post broke the forum. 😐 


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Ken
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Phid,

Nothing will be amicable at that point.

1) I think states will divide first.  Will/Can cities or counties become autonomous?  What will the Federal and State governments do to these rural towns if we're at war against them? 


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Donald Baker
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States won't willingly give up their territorial integrity.  Yes there might be pockets of resistance on both sides.  But the states will move decisively to crush any organized rebellions.  There will be instability until the dust settles.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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Donald Baker
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I resized the image.

Even if Trump were to be revealed as the Dark Lord of the Sith, he's still better than the last four presidents we've had.


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